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Grading The Units: Quarterbacks

by Rich Resch on July 1st, 2011 at 8:00 am

First of all, happy July!

Over the next few work days, I will be grading each of the Giants’ units on both offense (QB, WR/TE, RB, OL) and defense (DL, LB, DB) and maybe special teams if I can stomach it.  The grades are based on statistics mixed with my gut feeling. If you don’t like it, feel free to tell me off in the comments section.

And now without further freddy adu, grading the Giants’ QBs:

The perfect Quarterback unit includes an elite QB and a capable backup.  A young, high ceiling trade chip is a nice thing to have, but is ultimately a luxury.  Whether or not Eli Manning is elite can (and will) be debated until the cows come home, but few will deny that he is a franchise QB and one of the best the Giants have ever had.

Manning has been voted to a pro bowl and has proven that he can win on the biggest of stages, or so says his Super Bowl MVP trophy.  No one is arguing he is a hall of famer, but he is a legitimate franchise QB, which is something teams can go without for decades.  The high turnover numbers are a concern, and he will always be prone to a few boneheaded plays each season.  But the 25 interceptions were a fluke, inflated by a ridiculous amount of tipped balls by his young receivers.  I’d be shocked if he has even 20 next season.

In Sage Rosenfels, the Giants have a professional backup who is capable of handling the load for a few games if need be, but will never force a QB controversy.  If Manning is forced to miss a handful of games, Rosenfels can step in and run the offense without embarrassing himself, while also giving the team a chance to win.  Anything more than that is asking too much from your backup. He must also be able to hold a clipboard.

Ryan Perriloux has good upside, but is more likely to fade away like Andre Woodson or Rhett Bomar than become a useful trade chip like Matt Schaup or Kevin Kolb.  He has some value, but only a little bit.

Still, the Giants are looking good in this unit.  What more could you want out of your QB core (besides Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, Payton Manning and the other handful of QBs who are undeniably better than Eli)?

Grade: a hair closer to A- than B+

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About Rich Resch

Rich is a graduate of University of Maryland and is currently the senior editor of Giants Football Blog. He is a former contributor to Hot Foot Blog, and a former featured columnist on Bleacher Report. Hear him live on "Giants Rush," Wednesday nights at 9 on Blog Talk Radio. Follow him @RichResch View all posts by Rich Resch →
  • Mickster

    I say B to B+.nnBackups are but a footnote, and hard to judge anyway due to limited playing time, except on teams with bad or injured starters.u00a0 nnEli is a third tier QB.u00a0 Brady and Peyton are obviously the Tier 1.u00a0 Rodgers, Big Ben, Rivers, and Brees are Tier 2.u00a0 Eli falls into Tier 3 with a few others, but I don’t see how anyone can rate him any higher than the 7th best QB in the league.u00a0 nnWeighing all the letter grades equally A-F, you can only have 6 or 7 QB units in each letter grade.u00a0 That puts the top two tiers in the A’s, with Eli solidly in the B range, with a possible +.u00a0 To consider giving the Giants’ QB unit an A- would mean rating one of my Tier 2 QBs lower than Eli, and you’d have to explain that rationale to me.nnAll that said, thanks for the discussion Rich.

    • Rich Resch

      Hey Mick. u00a0First off, I would put Rodgers in the same tier as Peyton and Brady right now. u00a0Secondly, I’m not grading on a curve (as I said, its based on statistics and my gut feeling), so I don’t have to spread QBs evenly throughout each letter grade. u00a0I think Eli is probably a B+, and his ability to avoid injuries, keeping the backup a backup, helps too.nnAs for the importance of backups, you just need a guy that has shown the ability to come in and do a solid job, and I think Rosenfels has done that in the past. u00a0Hopefully Rosenfels never has to play, but having him there, as opposed to a guy like Sorgi, is worth something in my mind.u00a0

      • Mickster

        OK, so now that I re-read, I may have been splitting hairs.u00a0 I get tired of seeing so many “0 comments”, I had to weigh in.u00a0 It’s funny, but more and more I’m finding that Eli’s 2010 performance has brought out the Eli-basher in me that I never knew was there.

        • Rich Resch

          Hahaha. u00a0I appreciate the comments! u00a0nnEli took a step back last year but I’m confident 2010 was a fluke. u00a0If not, there will be a lot more Eli bashers on this site midway through the year.

          • J. Williams

            Really guys? A step back? The guy has made like three mistakes in the past three years. They just happened to all be in 2010. And he’s taken a step back? Oh god, you guys just sound very reactionary to me right now. Peyton made a lot of mistakes last year. He didn’t go from tier 1 to tier 2 did he? Brady has had bad games, Big Ben, Rivers (Check the the bling/ aint got no ring.). These guys don’t get downgraded for one season where they make a few mistakes. nnEli either is or he isn’t. He’s got a very good arm. Descent accuracy (needs WRs with a large radius – not 5-8 guys), excellent moxie, smart, tough, durable, learning how to be a leader, willed a super bowl for the Giants, great footwork, deceptive mobility, great character, always learning. Never cries. Sounds like a top tier QB to me.

          • Mickster

            I never knew you loved Eli so much.u00a0 With all our discussions over the winter, I thought we were on the same page with #10.u00a0 What happened?u00a0 Either you’re just hungry for a good blog debate to stretch your prose a little, or I’ve just not been able to get those disaster plays Eli made last year out of my head.u00a0 nnEli’s good, not great. Ben’s a little better in my book, and he’s the guy I wanted in ’04.u00a0 But admittedly his off-field transgressions would have been disastrous if he were loose in NYC, so Pitt can keep him. nnRivers IMO is the third best QB in the NFL, but he plays for an organization run by complete idiots.u00a0 The Spanos family knows nothing about football – even after all these years, and stays detached from the operations as much as possible while alienating themselves from the city of San Diego at every opportunity.u00a0 AJ Smith is a great talent evaluator whose aloofness toward people consistently prevents him from getting the most out of his assets.u00a0 Norv Turner is a great offensive mind that is too much of a nerd to be a leader of men, so he’s never been respected by his players.u00a0 There’s a reason Archie didn’t want his son to go there.u00a0 I know this team well since I live out here.u00a0 They’re an absolute joke, and Rivers’ excellence as a QB and a GREAT leader of men is the main reason they’re competitive.nnIf we hadn’t made the draft day trade in ’04 we may not have won it all.u00a0 Then again, we may have won multiple Lombardi trophies.u00a0 We’ll never know.u00a0 I’m not sour about trading Phil for Eli – at least we got one of the three good ones and a championship instead of JP Losman.

          • J. Williams

            Mickster,nnNope. I love Eli. A lot of folks think I hate on Eli because I thought the Giants got fleeced in the trade for no real reason.u00a0 nnI admit he made some really dumb plays this past season but a lot of players made really dumb plays this past season. Peyton made some really dumb plays this past season. It was still a statistically good year. And had Reese done something about the WRs and the LBs it could have been a championship year.nnAccuracy-wise Eli and Ben are the same. Ben’s got a stronger arm and is a bigger stronger, more mobile, but not more durable QB. nnAs far as Rivers, I think you’re towing the NFL line right now and anointing a really snotty QB who has done next to nothing in the NFL the 3rd best QB. The organizational problems are relevant but on the field he’s been surrounding by great players at every position. What’s wrong?nnHere are the Qbs who are better than Rivers who have the rings and wins to prove it:nnPeyton, Brady, Eli, Brees, Ben, RodgersnnNow I know I sound like a Rivers-hater. I’m not. He’s a good QB. Def top 15. But better than Eli, just like with Lebron being better than Kobe, show me the metal before you say that.

          • Mickster

            “As far as Rivers, I think you’re towing the NFL line right now and nanointing a really snotty QB who has done next to nothing in the NFL then 3rd best QB. The organizational problems are relevant but on the field nhe’s been surrounding by great players at every position. What’s wrong?”u00a0 . . . . nnu00a0. . . . So what’s wrong you ask?u00a0 Oh nothing, I guess a bad organization shouldn’t account for anything.u00a0 Archie knew what he was doing.nnSo you saw Rivers jawing with Jay Cutler one day and thought he was a njerk.u00a0 Well, many would say Jordan was a jerk.u00a0 Many would say Dan nMarino was a cocky jerk too, but with your logic Trent Dilfer was a nbetter QB than Dan, right?u00a0 Gotta be – he’s got more “hardware”!u00a0 Why nnot just send every QB that wins a SB to every Pro Bowl thereafter.u00a0 Andn when their career ends they get an automatic place in Canton.

          • J. Williams

            Mickster,nnWell I did say that the organizational issues ARE relevant. But ultimately he’s been surrounded by a lot of talent and has failed to become a transcendant player the way the “3rd best QB in the league” should. Brady, Peyton, Brees all transcend the sport. Why doesn’t Rivers?nnI’m not saying that Rivers is a bad QB because he gets into silly little pissing matches with other whiny little QBs like Jay “Crybaby” Cutler. I’m saying it’s a sign of immaturity and something Eli wouldn’t do because he would be too busy getting his offense ready to play a football game.nnWhen has anybody ever put Dilfer and Marino in the same sentence? This is about comparable players. Rivers has like a playoff appearance. Manning has lesser career stats and is not as accurate as Rivers. But he’s got more wins, more rings – in which he wasn’t a bit player like Dilfer – and I think shows tons more poise and more maturity. And that’s why he’s a better QB.nnNow I guess we have to agree to disagree. And I’m not saying at all the Rivers is a bad QB. I’m just saying Eli isn’t a third tier QB by any stretch of the imagination and Rivers is, by no stretch of the imagination, the 3rd best QB in the league.

          • Mickster

            We agree to disagree – so be it.u00a0 But just because more reasonable people might agree with me, it don’t mean I’m “towing the NFL line”.u00a0 For future purposes of discussion, don’t think I’m an Eli hater either.u00a0 Like him, don’t love him.

          • J. Williams

            Mickster,nnFair enough. I think “towing the line” may sound worse than i really is. I don’t mean to imply that you’re not thinking for yourself, which is something a lot of the posters and pundits on this sight could be accused of. I know you particularly have an independent and intelligent knowledge of football, not only supported by watching and research, but also by experience in playing. nnNow there is this group of thinkers who, at some point last or perhaps the season before, fell in love with Rivers precision accuracy and seemed to want to anoint him as a top 5 QB when he’s actually done next to nothing. Andu00a0 think you happen to be along that line of thinking.nnI’m also sure that you’re not a Manning hater. I just think, like Rich, you’re downgrading him a little too much based a couple of huge mistakes he made at some really inopportune times. And I understand if he loses a couple points in you guys’ book for it, but I just think 3rd tier is a bit extreme, particularly when you take away the stats and look at the accomplishments and games won. Like Ben, Manning wil never be a stats monster. But he gets things done and he has the record to prove it.

          • Mickster

            Well J,nThird tier doesn’t mean that there are only 3 tiers.u00a0 I just can’t put him ahead of those 6 QBs.u00a0 I could interchange Peyton and Brady at #1, and could find the other 4 interchangeable between #3 and #6.u00a0 Then comes Eli with Matt Schaub, and Mike Vick between #7 to #9 .u00a0 Now, that’s not extreme by any standard.

          • J. Williams

            Mickster,nnMatt Schaub? Mike Vick? You don’t see anything wrong with putting Eli in the same category as Matt Schaub and Mike Vick?

          • Mickster

            nope

          • Rich Resch

            I like Eli a lot, but three mistakes? Come on, that’s ridiculous. u00a0I said I think he’s a good quarterback, but he took a step back last year, meaning he wasn’t as good in 2010 as he was in 2009 which is fact, not opinion. u00a0Saying that Eli took a step back is just about the tamest complaint you’ll hear about him, and you can’t even handle me saying that? Do a google search of Eli Manning and you’ll find people saying much worse.

          • J. Williams

            Rich, it’s a misrepresentation to say that that is a fact. let’s remember that Eli had major O-line injuries and major WR injuries to deal with this season. If Brady was hit with the same set of circumstances, barring Bellicheat’s ability to game plan any situation, Brady would have a down season. We wouldn’t say he “took a step back”. We would say he had a lot to deal with and – here’s the important part – ‘WAS NOT ABLE’ to put up the same kind of numbers due to it.nnSo what you’re saying really isn’t fair because it’s not taking into account circumsance. 31 TDs under those circumstances is pretty dawn great.

          • Rich Resch

            Alright, we’re just arguing over semantics. u00a0When I said he took a step back, I don’t mean he regressed as a player, I mean his 2010 season wasn’t as good as his 2009 season. u00a0You even admitted that he made more mistakes in 2010. u00a0I still think he’s a very good QB.

          • Mickster

            Rich,nI believe you and I have nearly identical perceptions of Eli at this point in time.u00a0 I think that many, including some Giant fans, would render an even more harsh judgment – just like you attest.

    • J. Williams

      Mickster,nnEli third tier? Come on, that’s not fair. Eli is as good as any of those tier 2 guys you named. It’s not his fault that the Giants draft a thousand WRs but can’t seem to get him a starting split end. Who does that? A thousand WRs, not one starting caliber split end? What is this the 2005 Jets?

  • J. Williams

    A+ for Eli. F for any backups that get hurt. What’s the point of a backup if he gets hurt?

    • Mickster

      Yes.u00a0 Jim Sorgi gets an F- for costing us a draft pick and making us get stuck with Darius Reynaud.u00a0 The nerve!

      • J. Williams

        No Reese gets an F for that.

  • Anonymous

    Eli will have at least 20 int every year until you get a capable LT

    • Mickster

      You may be right, Jay.